The Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum-Western Red Cedar / Port Orford Cedar / Redwood vs Alder / Sassafras? (2024)

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The Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum-Western Red Cedar / Port Orford Cedar / Redwood vs Alder / Sassafras? (1)

alexc90

537274

Registered Member

alexc90

537274

    6:38 AM - 2 days ago#1

    Maybe I'm a little off topic, but I'm looking at building a solid body guitar to start.

    I'm also considering these tonewoods for use in an eventual acoustic guitar.

    For a body blank, I'm looking at a combination of a Redwood drop top with a Myrtle or Western Red Cedar base.

    My impression is Western Red Cedar would be closer to Alder. Myrtle is more often used as a back and side wood, and has highly irregular grain patterns at times.

    The supplier I'm looking at, Oregon Wild Woods, lists Port Orford Cedar neck blanks as well.
    My understanding is Port Orford Cedar is somewhat like Sitka in stiffness, and harder than most Cedar. I know Spanish Cedar has been used as neck wood in the past. Is Port Orford Cedar a good choice for a neck?

    For a drop top/veneer, I'm looking at Redwood since it comes in some really nice curly examples.
    Would Redwood have much impact on the tone of the guitar, similar to the way a maple cap might add brightness, or a spruce cap might add clarity?

    Longer term when I make an acoustic, I'm strongly considering using Redwood as a top wood, in combination with Walnut back and sides to make a fingerstyle guitar.

    Any thoughts on any of these woods in general as tonewoods?

    Howard Klepper

    7,9426,782

    Registered Member

    Howard Klepper

    7,9426,782

      4:46 PM - 1 day ago#2

      I recommend that you stick with hardwoods for a solid body electric.

      Both redwood and Western red cedar are soft and ding very easily. Is your goal light weight? They have that.

      Alder is a bland, light-to-medium weight hardwood. Fender used it for bodies, probably because it is cheap and easy to work. I would never have thought of saying that it is close to Western red cedar. What they call 'myrtle' in Oregon is also called Bay laurel, or California laurel. It's a medium weight hardwood, light in color but often with dark stain/pigment patterns, and occasionally with curl. It is not known for irregular grain. Also easy to work.

      POC is a lovely, off-white, fragrant softwood, easy to work (but some don't like the smell, which can be a bit overwhelming). Like most "cedars," it is really a cypress. It has been used successfully as a neck on flamenco guitars, but more often it is used as a top wood. And, like all the softwoods called "cedar" it is no relation to Spanish cedar, which is a soft, lightweight hardwood. What they have in common is a pungent fragrance.

      You have said nothing about your intentions for this guitar, what kind of pickups and hardware you plan to use, what kind of finish, or your sonic goals, and type of music you want to use it for, or why you are considering these woods. That makes it hard to advise you, other than to repeat that it's generally a good idea to use hardwoods for a solid body electric.

      I can't get no torrefaction

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        alexc90

        537274

        Registered Member

        alexc90

        537274

          7:08 PM - 1 day ago#3

          Howard Klepper wrote:

          4:46 PM - 1 day ago

          I recommend that you stick with hardwoods for a solid body electric.

          Both redwood and Western red cedar are soft and ding very easily. Is your goal light weight? They have that.

          Alder is a bland, light-to-medium weight hardwood. Fender used it for bodies, probably because it is cheap and easy to work. I would never have thought of saying that it is close to Western red cedar. What they call 'myrtle' in Oregon is also called Bay laurel, or California laurel. It's a medium weight hardwood, light in color but often with dark stain/pigment patterns, and occasionally with curl. It is not known for irregular grain. Also easy to work.

          POC is a lovely, off-white, fragrant softwood, easy to work (but some don't like the smell, which can be a bit overwhelming). Like most "cedars," it is really a cypress. It has been used successfully as a neck on flamenco guitars, but more often it is used as a top wood. And, like all the softwoods called "cedar" it is no relation to Spanish cedar, which is a soft, lightweight hardwood. What they have in common is a pungent fragrance.

          You have said nothing about your intentions for this guitar, what kind of pickups and hardware you plan to use, what kind of finish, or your sonic goals, and type of music you want to use it for, or why you are considering these woods. That makes it hard to advise you, other than to repeat that it's generally a good idea to use hardwoods for a solid body electric.

          Thanks for the thorough reply. I know they're softwoods, but don't know about the pros and cons of using a softwood in an electric solid body.
          My goal is to make a Strat, either SSS with a Dimarzio HS2 in the bridge, or an HSH style configuration, possibly with a mini Humbucker in the middle.

          I'm looking into doing rear routed controls and wood mounting the pickups, which led me to look at alternate body woods. I know fender did a run of Cedar body guitars at one point, and has used Pine in Telecasters recently. I like the sound and vibration transfer Alder provides.
          Oregon Wild Woods offers many options for Cedar body blanks, so presumably it works ok. But I don't really know the pros and cons of them sonically in a solid body.

          Eric Johnsons main strat is Sassafras. He noted that the Sassafras body seems to have more velvety high notes with more sustain. So that got me interested in Sassafras and alternatives. Sassafras is a hardwood, but with a janka rating of around 650 lb/ft, vs around 450 for Redwood, a softwood. So they're pretty different but not too far apart.

          In terms of finish, I'm looking at hand finishing it with Watco Danish Oil(maybe not ideal) or TruOil, which seems common.
          For hardware I might make it a hardtail, or just do a traditional Strat trem.

          I'm looking at buying a Maple neck blank, though I see there are many Port Orford Cedar neck blanks. I don't know if Port Orford is really ideal for an electric neck.

          For type of music, a big range, but mostly classic rock, some jazz/fusion tones, and Grateful Dead style sounds. I'm leaning towards HSH for more of a full frequency hifi sound.

            2:04 AM - 1 day ago#4

            Myrtle would maybe be a better hardwood body option. But the body blanks go for around $200+, vs $100 for Redwood and Cedar alternatives.

            The Unofficial Martin Guitar Forum-Western Red Cedar / Port Orford Cedar / Redwood vs Alder / Sassafras? (2024)

            FAQs

            What is the difference between Port Orford cedar and Western Red Cedar? ›

            Port Orford Cedar is the strongest decking material available for wood deck construction. It's 40% stronger than Redwood or Western Red Cedar in impact bending and has a 590 lbf (pounds-force) on the Janka hardness scale.

            What is the difference between western red cedar and redwood? ›

            Both species are beautiful in their own right, but they have different looks. Redwood is a medium to darker red-hued wood (there's a reason they call it redwood, after all), and while cedar does come in reddish tones, it can also have a lighter honey-yellow and almost white color as well.

            What is the best grade of Western Red Cedar? ›

            Clear V.G.

            This is the highest Bevel siding grade. All Clear V.G. Heart grade is sawn vertical grain (edge grain) and is kiln dried. Pieces have a smooth face of decay-resistant heartwood and are free from growth characteristics that affect appearance or performance.

            Why is Western Red Cedar so desirable? ›

            Western red cedar is naturally resistant to decay and insect damage, so no chemical treatment is required. Its superior durability, aesthetic beauty and dimensional stability make it an excellent choice for exterior applications in residential or commercial projects.

            Why is Western Red Cedar so expensive? ›

            This has been caused by a large trade dispute between Canada and the U.S. that has been going on since the 80's on all softwoods imported from Canada. Not only is this affecting Western Red Cedar, but it also affects Alaskan Yellow Cedar, Douglas Fir, Pine, and a host of other softwoods.

            Which lasts longer, cedar or redwood? ›

            The key differences between redwood and cedar for a fence are that redwood is more expensive but lasts longer and has a richer red color than cedar. But redwood is only available in its signature red hue, whereas cedar has a few shades. Cedar absorbs stain and paints well, while redwood does not.

            What lasts longer, pressure-treated or redwood? ›

            Cedar posts may be expected to last eight to 27 years (white cedar lasting longer than red cedar), redwood posts last about 20 years, and pressure-treated pine posts should last at least 15 to 20 years, with most lasting more than 30 years. Environmental conditions are a factor.

            What is another name for Port-Orford-cedar? ›

            Port-Orford-cedar (Chamaecyparis lawsoniana), also called Lawson cypress and Port Orford white-cedar, is known for its grace in ornamental plantings and for its versatile wood. As logs, mostly exported to Japan, it brings higher prices than almost any other conifer in the United States.

            Is Japanese cedar better than Western cedar? ›

            Japanese Cedar- A newer product on the market in the US that shows promise as being a quality, lower cost alternative to Western Red Cedar. However, the pickets are thinner and less sturdy than Western Red Cedar, and have a tendency to split or break during installation.

            What is Port-Orford-cedar good for? ›

            Port-Orford-cedar has been used in the manufacture of Venetian blind slats, storage battery separators, sashes, doors, interior finish mill work, hope chests, matches, dock planking, and a host of other wooden things, including posts, flutes and other musical instruments, arrow shafts (manufactured in Myrtle Creek, ...

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